astra_nomer: (Default)
astra_nomer ([personal profile] astra_nomer) wrote2006-01-26 10:20 am
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School Boys

So, apparently, a student at a New England high school is claiming gender discrimination. The interesting thing is, the student is a boy. A white, middle-class male, suing for discrimination.

Certainly it's true that more women are entering college these days than men. But shouldn't we be saying, "You Go Girl!" instead of "ZOMG!! Save the boys!!!"

I cannot believe that education has changed so dramatically in this country over the last 10 or even 20 years that it's suddenly become biased toward girls. The educational system in this country was originally just for white males. Just 40 years ago, Harvard University did not allow women in some of its libraries. At the same time, the majority of elementary school teachers over the last century or more have been women, and while I won't rant about that issue now, it didn't seem to have hurt the legions of boys who were educated by them and went on to become successful men within the patriarchy.

Yes, it's true that boys have more behavioral issues than girls, and that will affect their educational opportunities. But is this really more of an issue today than in the past? Has boyhood really changed that much?

I recall being one of just a handful of girls in my high school science and math classes. I recall that when my calculus teacher handed out M&Ms to highest achievers in her class, that my candy was sometimes stolen when I turned my back, and at least one student complained that the girls always got the awards, even though we were vastly outnumbered by the boys.

Now I'm the mother of two boys myself. But I expect them to exert self-discipline in school. I expect them to do their best with their studies. I will help find opportunities within the educational system for them to get ahead. I will not tolerate them making excuses for themselves by saying they were discriminated against. If I've managed to succeed against the odds, they can too.

[identity profile] astra-nomer.livejournal.com 2006-01-27 03:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Recess and PE are definitely necessary, especially in elementary school. I mean, look at the fuss over obesity among schoolchildren!

Much as I hate the idea of becoming a "soccer mom," shuttling my kids to and from sports practice and the like, I think I will have to sign them up for after-school sports activities just so that they can work off some of that excess energy. Better then having them bounce around the house...
ilai: (Default)

[personal profile] ilai 2006-01-27 03:29 pm (UTC)(link)
My impression (which might be wrong) is that the military uses behavioral modification (unfreezing/movement/refreezing) during boot camp to make recruits more rule-following and conformist. But at the same time, the military also seems to reward aggression, confidence, competition, and energy.

Re: (remcat pointed me - and others - this way :)

[identity profile] treptoplax.livejournal.com 2006-01-27 03:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Sure, I have no argument with you there - I think the point made further down about this suit itself all being about gaming the system is dead-on.

I do think though, if boys' performance is lagging, it's worth paying attention to even anecdotal evidence about setting negative expectations for them and failing to support their learning styles. Actually, it would be nice to get non-anecdotal evidence, but not much chance of that, it would seem...

[identity profile] lokiect.livejournal.com 2006-01-27 05:16 pm (UTC)(link)
aww!

my brother had a friend who had a few barbies as a kid, but he was also really into war games and so on, so I don't think it was very obvious to his male friends, at least, outside of my brother and maybe a few other nice kids from our school. Since we moved before they hit puberty, I really hope this friend didn't get beaten up or go seriously macho later on. I mean, the social pressure to "be a man" is kind of frightening and, well, I'm glad I get to be a tomboyish girl- it's still pretty socially unnacceptable to hit a girl, even if she is athletic.
I think in general, I'm used to people outside of my family being really macho about their sons and trying to make sure they "grow up to be men" and so on. (I tend to assume that my family is just weird because, well, we kinda are- the most macho male creature in my generation crossdressed some as a kid ;9 )

[identity profile] lokiect.livejournal.com 2006-01-27 05:36 pm (UTC)(link)
I may be going over the top on this, but I get the feeling that one of the differences is that there the men don't feel like they are being girly by acting like military men. And like ian said, there's the brainwashing process- in order to be accepted in the military, you do follow the rules. breaking them gets both you and your peers into trouble. To be accepted in school, you have to convince the other kids that you're cool and that isn't always by doing well or behaving at all.

course, I don't think there's anything about following the rules that is inherently a feminine thing to do (but then, I do have to remember that I'm weird and my data points are also likely weird). I mean, maybe girls tend to be subtler about it... maybe? ::shrug:::

Re: (remcat pointed me - and others - this way :)

[identity profile] mijven.livejournal.com 2006-01-27 06:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Is the kid's suit actually asking for retroactive grade inflation? I'm unclear on that point - I see that the father (who also happens to be the lawyer that wrote his son's complaint) has said the school system should so compensate the boys - but because that line was at the end and not included early on with the description of the suit, I'd gathered that he was just sounding off. I could very easily be mistaken about that, however.

Don't get me wrong (and apologies if I gave this impression!) I'm not arguing that he should win the suit. For one I don't know enough details (see above. ;) I'm just saying he's not alone in noticing that boys have trouble fitting into the latest incarnation of school and I appreciate people challenging the system. (I just hope that a good system can survive such challenges.)

[identity profile] ukelele.livejournal.com 2006-01-27 10:49 pm (UTC)(link)
On the one hand, good point. But on the other hand, as people note...if I could make my students drop and give me fifty, or wake them up at 4 am to make them run five miles, or call them worthless little feces, or any number of other drill-sergeant-type behaviors not actually within my teacherly authority, it would be a pretty different environment. I am also led to believe from hearing about people's experiences in the military that recruits don't start out good at rule-following; the whole point of basic is to break them so that they can be rebuilt in more conformist, rule-following ways. I think there's compensating machismo in there that appeals to a lot of boys, but I think most girls are too sensible to go in for it ;). Or just don't need to be broken to follow orders.

[identity profile] ukelele.livejournal.com 2006-01-27 10:53 pm (UTC)(link)
I think there's a complicating factor in the case of your parents -- from what I hear from my substitute-teaching aunt, modesty and self-effacement is still very much a part of Asian girl culture, but I don't think it holds more generally.

[identity profile] remcat.livejournal.com 2006-01-28 05:21 am (UTC)(link)
Whereas, my boys asked for a dollhouse several Christmases ago. They got one, and sometimes play with the dolls ... but more often, Zurg comes rampaging through the attic, or a dinosaur attacks.

[identity profile] remcat.livejournal.com 2006-01-28 05:23 am (UTC)(link)
I hadn't thought about that in a while! Clone2 gave it up after we had a real baby for him to play with.

He has finally given up the idea of gesgating himself, but he is still planning on parenting one day.

[identity profile] remcat.livejournal.com 2006-01-28 05:28 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you -- I think this sums up the problem well.

[identity profile] astra-nomer.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 12:35 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, it's very much a part of Asian girl culture, but it's also there in Western culture, just not as obviously. I mean, didn't you also grow up on fairy tales like Sleeping Beauty and Rapunzel, where Prince Charming comes to rescue fair maiden with no effort on her part, even if she does need to wait 100 years before he comes? There's also the pressure to not show up all the boys, because then they won't like you.

But I'm just saying it's hard for me to gauge what general American cultural trends are like when I all I see are extreme viewpoints. :)

[identity profile] ukelele.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 01:23 am (UTC)(link)
I mean, didn't you also grow up on fairy tales like Sleeping Beauty and Rapunzel, where Prince Charming comes to rescue fair maiden with no effort on her part, even if she does need to wait 100 years before he comes?

I do not know how to type on the internet the sound of my drink coming out my nose. (Good thing I wasn't actually drinking anything.)

Um, when she was pregnant with me my mom was a state officer of NOW and marched in pro-ERA rallies in other states. I grew up reading Greek mythology and Nancy Drew stories, and if there was ever any pressure from anyone not to show up the boys, I was blissfully, nerdishly oblivious to it (not only did I have no particular desire to be liked by them, but I was just better than they were, and I enjoyed kicking people's asses, because goodness knows I had nothing better to do).

Which is to say, I think our upbringings in the feminism regard represent pretty much the opposite ends of the spectrum without actually departing from the socially acceptable. But I cannot begin to imagine the upbringing in which girls (intelligent, nerdish ones no less) accepted that, much less in which they grew up to assume everyone was subject to it. Thus the hypothetical drink out my nose.

[identity profile] ukelele.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 01:23 am (UTC)(link)
(Dude, you seriously believed there was a time in my life at which I cared what boys thought of me? But...but I was pretty sure you'd met me... ;)

[identity profile] astra-nomer.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 07:27 pm (UTC)(link)
You see? You are part of one extreme viewpoint. General American culture falls somewhere between you and my parents. But that's a pretty wide gap!

(Anonymous) 2006-01-29 10:41 pm (UTC)(link)
ut I cannot begin to imagine the upbringing in which girls (intelligent, nerdish ones no less) accepted that, much less in which they grew up to assume everyone was subject to it.

Trust me, it was very confusing growing up in a culture that valued education and intelligence but also valued modesty and meekness in women.

"Hey dad, I just won a math contest!"

"Good job! Be humble!"

[identity profile] astra-nomer.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 10:42 pm (UTC)(link)
bah. that was me.

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