I'm having trouble if you're discussing this because you're interested in the topic or because you feel personally attacked; in case it's the latter let me make myself absolutely clear that I consider the sort of college campuses we hang out on to be a whole different kettle of fish.
But how does that translate into academic achievement? We're agreeing here; I said that I saw no connection between those complaints and academic achievement.
But if you aren't so sure of yourself and believe modesty is a virtue, you don't always raise your hand. I posit that this sort of thing favors boys over girls. Does this sort of thing not happen in classrooms anymore? I think that it is not consider a cool part of girl culture to be modest anymore, but I don't hang out with enough elementary school students to know if that carries over into classroom participation. So in that afraid to answer was a culture artifact I think it's gone. In that it's a personality difference based on energy level I'm sure it still applies. (If you really don't think there's been a cultural change just watch some TV from the 1980s sometime.)
what specific teaching practices favor girls? I can speculate that the following practices would benefit girls (using the "average gender differences" meaning). I have no idea if they are more in favor in classrooms now than 20 or 40 years ago. - group projects - emphasis on understanding viewpoints - in history a focus on daily life rather than on war - emphasis on test-taking skills (this one is just a guess.)
what efforts have schools been putting forth to promote girls ahead of boys since I went to school? I'd like to hear specifics. I just have speculation -- the possibility that the encouragement of girls has come at the expense of boys may have lead to a culture where teachers do not value the contributions of boys.
Specific discrimination against girls was acceptable when I was in elementary and middle school. (My high school was sufficiently different from the public school I attended up until then that it's not useful to compare.) Certain extracircular activities were open only to boys, other only to girls. Most sports were not available to girls. Boys were still expected to be the leaders of things. Girls who wanted to be in charged of things were discouraged. It is my belief that these things are much less in effect now.
Am I saying it was bad that they went away? No, absolutely not. But at the same time there has not been an increase in broadening what it's acceptable for guys to do. Homophobia is less in some progressive places, but I get the feeling it's still a large motivator in middle school. So girls can do almost anything, but boys are still limited.
In other words, the discrimination against girls in the past was artificially providing a way for boys to seem worthwhile. The absence of that discrimination
I think that the combination of all of these factors could lead to an situation where the teachers do not expect as much from the boys. High expectations are an important component of academic achievement.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2006-01-26 10:54 pm (UTC)But how does that translate into academic achievement?
We're agreeing here; I said that I saw no connection between those complaints and academic achievement.
But if you aren't so sure of yourself and believe modesty is a virtue, you don't always raise your hand. I posit that this sort of thing favors boys over girls. Does this sort of thing not happen in classrooms anymore?
I think that it is not consider a cool part of girl culture to be modest anymore, but I don't hang out with enough elementary school students to know if that carries over into classroom participation. So in that afraid to answer was a culture artifact I think it's gone. In that it's a personality difference based on energy level I'm sure it still applies. (If you really don't think there's been a cultural change just watch some TV from the 1980s sometime.)
what specific teaching practices favor girls?
I can speculate that the following practices would benefit girls (using the "average gender differences" meaning). I have no idea if they are more in favor in classrooms now than 20 or 40 years ago.
- group projects
- emphasis on understanding viewpoints
- in history a focus on daily life rather than on war
- emphasis on test-taking skills (this one is just a guess.)
what efforts have schools been putting forth to promote girls ahead of boys since I went to school? I'd like to hear specifics.
I just have speculation -- the possibility that the encouragement of girls has come at the expense of boys may have lead to a culture where teachers do not value the contributions of boys.
Specific discrimination against girls was acceptable when I was in elementary and middle school. (My high school was sufficiently different from the public school I attended up until then that it's not useful to compare.) Certain extracircular activities were open only to boys, other only to girls. Most sports were not available to girls. Boys were still expected to be the leaders of things. Girls who wanted to be in charged of things were discouraged. It is my belief that these things are much less in effect now.
Am I saying it was bad that they went away? No, absolutely not.
But at the same time there has not been an increase in broadening what it's acceptable for guys to do. Homophobia is less in some progressive places, but I get the feeling it's still a large motivator in middle school. So girls can do almost anything, but boys are still limited.
In other words, the discrimination against girls in the past was artificially providing a way for boys to seem worthwhile. The absence of that discrimination
I think that the combination of all of these factors could lead to an situation where the teachers do not expect as much from the boys. High expectations are an important component of academic achievement.