School Boys
Jan. 26th, 2006 10:20 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
astra_nomerSo, apparently, a student at a New England high school is claiming gender discrimination. The interesting thing is, the student is a boy. A white, middle-class male, suing for discrimination.
Certainly it's true that more women are entering college these days than men. But shouldn't we be saying, "You Go Girl!" instead of "ZOMG!! Save the boys!!!"
I cannot believe that education has changed so dramatically in this country over the last 10 or even 20 years that it's suddenly become biased toward girls. The educational system in this country was originally just for white males. Just 40 years ago, Harvard University did not allow women in some of its libraries. At the same time, the majority of elementary school teachers over the last century or more have been women, and while I won't rant about that issue now, it didn't seem to have hurt the legions of boys who were educated by them and went on to become successful men within the patriarchy.
Yes, it's true that boys have more behavioral issues than girls, and that will affect their educational opportunities. But is this really more of an issue today than in the past? Has boyhood really changed that much?
I recall being one of just a handful of girls in my high school science and math classes. I recall that when my calculus teacher handed out M&Ms to highest achievers in her class, that my candy was sometimes stolen when I turned my back, and at least one student complained that the girls always got the awards, even though we were vastly outnumbered by the boys.
Now I'm the mother of two boys myself. But I expect them to exert self-discipline in school. I expect them to do their best with their studies. I will help find opportunities within the educational system for them to get ahead. I will not tolerate them making excuses for themselves by saying they were discriminated against. If I've managed to succeed against the odds, they can too.
Certainly it's true that more women are entering college these days than men. But shouldn't we be saying, "You Go Girl!" instead of "ZOMG!! Save the boys!!!"
I cannot believe that education has changed so dramatically in this country over the last 10 or even 20 years that it's suddenly become biased toward girls. The educational system in this country was originally just for white males. Just 40 years ago, Harvard University did not allow women in some of its libraries. At the same time, the majority of elementary school teachers over the last century or more have been women, and while I won't rant about that issue now, it didn't seem to have hurt the legions of boys who were educated by them and went on to become successful men within the patriarchy.
Yes, it's true that boys have more behavioral issues than girls, and that will affect their educational opportunities. But is this really more of an issue today than in the past? Has boyhood really changed that much?
I recall being one of just a handful of girls in my high school science and math classes. I recall that when my calculus teacher handed out M&Ms to highest achievers in her class, that my candy was sometimes stolen when I turned my back, and at least one student complained that the girls always got the awards, even though we were vastly outnumbered by the boys.
Now I'm the mother of two boys myself. But I expect them to exert self-discipline in school. I expect them to do their best with their studies. I will help find opportunities within the educational system for them to get ahead. I will not tolerate them making excuses for themselves by saying they were discriminated against. If I've managed to succeed against the odds, they can too.
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no subject
Date: 2006-01-26 07:58 pm (UTC)First, this lawsuit has nothing do with reality. It has to do with doing whatever it takes for your kids to get ahead. That's what parents do these days, from parents in Manhattan getting their toddlers in Manhattan falsely diagnosed with learning disabilities to make them eligible for intensive interventions that will help them get into the best preschools, to parents paying people to ghostwrite college admissions essays.
Secondly, I believe that it is possible for an environment to discriminate against boys, that some schools may do so, and that this is more likely to be going on now than it was several decades ago (I have no real arguments to support my third point, though.). I believe that there are personalities that are more common among females and personalities that are more common among males. (For the purposes of the rest of this discussion I will call those personalities "how men behave" and "how women behave". I am not arguing that all men behave this way, nor that no woman behave this way. Think of it as a "women are likely to be shorter than men, but not every woman is shorter than every man, nor is the woman guaranteed to be shorter than the man in any given pairing." sort of thing.) I'm not going to bother to make lists of such personality differences, but think about the sorts of communication differences that are frequently described (women talk to strengthen relationships, men talk to give each other information.)
I think we can all agree that most corporate workplaces benefit people who behave like men. You get paid more if you aggressively negotiate for your salary. You are respected more if you never say "I don't know". Etc.
There exist environments where you are penalized for behaving like a man. Disagreement with the consensus is considered "being disruptive". Direct talk is considered confrontational. (My father's point of view is that his current employer is one such place; this isn't the voice of bitterness, but one of anthropological interest.) I agree that those environments aren't common, but I think it would be short-sighted to claim no such environments exists solely because the powerful environments are male-supportive.
It seems entirely possible to me that some high schools are the latter sort of environment. And that increased focus on reducing the discrimination against girls has changed the effects of those environments.
Are the boys hurt by a school culture that discriminates against them? I think this is the thing that is changing most quickly. People think that college admissions are based on tiny differences between applicants. In such an environment I can see where someone could reach the conclusion that a male-intolerant culture would be causing serious harm. I'm not sure there is a harm, since I'm not sure that any of the things mentioned by the student actually interfere with someone's ability to get an education.
Keep in mind that when I was in eighth grade I went on a tirade against my school because the girls were allowed to wear miniskirts of any length while boys were required to where long pants. No girls ever got in trouble for wearing shorts, either. But boys got sent home (the obnoxious boys who liked to point out they weren't following the rules.) I considered this discriminatory and proposed a length above the knee policy instead which was rejected by the principal. (And then after I left that school system my exact language was adopted by the school board without attribution.) So yes, I do think it's possible for an educational environment to discriminate against boys.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-26 09:42 pm (UTC)And I see your point that some school environments can be discriminatory toward boys in a behaviorally and disciplinary sense. But how does that translate into academic achievement?
So here's something I haven't really heard talked about much -- what efforts have schools been putting forth to promote girls ahead of boys since I went to school? I'd like to hear specifics. When I was in high school, we were given points for every time we raised our hands in class and contributed to discussion. So if you're energetic and full of ideas you're sure that everyone wants to hear, you get lots of points. But if you aren't so sure of yourself and believe modesty is a virtue, you don't always raise your hand. I posit that this sort of thing favors boys over girls. Does this sort of thing not happen in classrooms anymore? Aside from glitter and feathers, what specific teaching practices favor girls?
no subject
Date: 2006-01-26 10:54 pm (UTC)But how does that translate into academic achievement?
We're agreeing here; I said that I saw no connection between those complaints and academic achievement.
But if you aren't so sure of yourself and believe modesty is a virtue, you don't always raise your hand. I posit that this sort of thing favors boys over girls. Does this sort of thing not happen in classrooms anymore?
I think that it is not consider a cool part of girl culture to be modest anymore, but I don't hang out with enough elementary school students to know if that carries over into classroom participation. So in that afraid to answer was a culture artifact I think it's gone. In that it's a personality difference based on energy level I'm sure it still applies. (If you really don't think there's been a cultural change just watch some TV from the 1980s sometime.)
what specific teaching practices favor girls?
I can speculate that the following practices would benefit girls (using the "average gender differences" meaning). I have no idea if they are more in favor in classrooms now than 20 or 40 years ago.
- group projects
- emphasis on understanding viewpoints
- in history a focus on daily life rather than on war
- emphasis on test-taking skills (this one is just a guess.)
what efforts have schools been putting forth to promote girls ahead of boys since I went to school? I'd like to hear specifics.
I just have speculation -- the possibility that the encouragement of girls has come at the expense of boys may have lead to a culture where teachers do not value the contributions of boys.
Specific discrimination against girls was acceptable when I was in elementary and middle school. (My high school was sufficiently different from the public school I attended up until then that it's not useful to compare.) Certain extracircular activities were open only to boys, other only to girls. Most sports were not available to girls. Boys were still expected to be the leaders of things. Girls who wanted to be in charged of things were discouraged. It is my belief that these things are much less in effect now.
Am I saying it was bad that they went away? No, absolutely not.
But at the same time there has not been an increase in broadening what it's acceptable for guys to do. Homophobia is less in some progressive places, but I get the feeling it's still a large motivator in middle school. So girls can do almost anything, but boys are still limited.
In other words, the discrimination against girls in the past was artificially providing a way for boys to seem worthwhile. The absence of that discrimination
I think that the combination of all of these factors could lead to an situation where the teachers do not expect as much from the boys. High expectations are an important component of academic achievement.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-27 01:14 am (UTC)Certainly group projects are generally cited as one of those girl-friendly teaching practices (this is also one of the places I part ways with being a girl ;).
Social history has certainly been much more in vogue among university intellectual circles of late; I assume that eventually has a trickle-down to elementary and secondary curriculum standards but, as I do not teach history, I can't tell you for sure. I can tell you that the (very popular) Latin textbook I use spends a lot of time talking about daily life and essentially no time talking about war or politics (which I think is execrable for a Latin textbook).
no subject
Date: 2006-01-27 03:23 pm (UTC)Well if that's so, that's great. See, I get two viewpoints on the world -- my liberal-elite friends and co-workers who buy subversive feminist books for their children, trucks for their daughters, and dolls for their sons -- and my parents, who are still dismayed that I can't keep up with the housework and have to force my poor over-worked husband to pick up the slack and who still sometimes chastise me for laughing too loudly. So yay, girl empowerment!
And you should count me in with
And I guess I'm dismayed that now that the girls are starting to out-achieve the boys, the pendulum will swing back the other way and girls will be pushed to the back burner again -- especially in math and science fields, since boys do still outnumber girls there. I wish there were a good way to help all students in all areas of academics, not have the assumption that English is a girly subject and math is a boy-ey subject.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-27 10:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-29 12:35 am (UTC)But I'm just saying it's hard for me to gauge what general American cultural trends are like when I all I see are extreme viewpoints. :)
no subject
Date: 2006-01-29 01:23 am (UTC)I do not know how to type on the internet the sound of my drink coming out my nose. (Good thing I wasn't actually drinking anything.)
Um, when she was pregnant with me my mom was a state officer of NOW and marched in pro-ERA rallies in other states. I grew up reading Greek mythology and Nancy Drew stories, and if there was ever any pressure from anyone not to show up the boys, I was blissfully, nerdishly oblivious to it (not only did I have no particular desire to be liked by them, but I was just better than they were, and I enjoyed kicking people's asses, because goodness knows I had nothing better to do).
Which is to say, I think our upbringings in the feminism regard represent pretty much the opposite ends of the spectrum without actually departing from the socially acceptable. But I cannot begin to imagine the upbringing in which girls (intelligent, nerdish ones no less) accepted that, much less in which they grew up to assume everyone was subject to it. Thus the hypothetical drink out my nose.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-29 10:41 pm (UTC)Trust me, it was very confusing growing up in a culture that valued education and intelligence but also valued modesty and meekness in women.
"Hey dad, I just won a math contest!"
"Good job! Be humble!"
no subject
Date: 2006-01-29 10:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-29 01:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-29 07:27 pm (UTC)